The other day, I saw the film of a brilliant play, ‘12 Angry Men’ by Reginald Rose, which is about a 12-man jury deciding the fate of a teenage boy from a city slum who has been accused of murder. Setting aside the dire sexism of the play (an all-male jury; it was made in 1957), it is a wonderful portrayal of human nature, leaders and followers. Over the course of the play, one member of the jury (Henry Fonda) convinces all the others, one by one, that they shouldn’t automatically assume the defendant is guilty. He unpicks every piece of apparent evidence, revealing it to be unreliable, while exposing the prejudices of the jury which underlie their assumptions.
Why is this relevant? After I watched it, I thought about the issue of the science of male and female human brains. Since time began, people have assumed that men and women are fundamentally different (not only physically and hormonally, but behaviourally as well).
For example, in the late 19th century, Henry Maudsley, eminent psychiatrist, said that “a woman does not easily regain the vital energy that was recklessly spent on learning”.
This assumption, which persists over time, has led to, reinforced and backed up stereotyping of male and female roles in society; for example, women are better suited to caring and empathetic roles, such as nursing; men are more suited to competitive and leadership roles, such as business leaders and politicians.
At a closer look at the scientific evidence, we find a different story. Although there are some studies that show there may be differences, there is no general consensus – and I wrote about here when the magazine Scientific American devoted a whole issue to the subject earlier this year. There are some excellent books written about this; Professor Deborah Cameron’s and Cordelia Fine’s – published just a few months ago.
Professor Cameron was a speaker at our Inspiring Leaders event in November (podcast here) and also at a fascinating controversial debate at King’s Place in London, which is podcasted by the Guardian here.
No one disputes the obvious biological differences. What are under dispute are higher cognitive differences. Some scientists do claim to have found differences but many scientists have found none. My concern about assuming that there are differences in cognitive abilities before they are actually agreed on is that this automatically leads to different treatment and expectations in society. For example, if women are assumed to be less good at maths, they will perform worse, and this negative effect of stereotyping has been demonstrated by researchers.
The scientists, such as Simon Baron Cohen, who do claim to have found differences have conducted many of their experiments on adults. In these cases, I would argue that we cannot rule out the possibility of the brain adapting over time and developing skills that are practised (and men will practise certain skills more, because that’s what’s expected of them).
Other scientists assume that, because differences have been shown to exist in animals, humans must therefore have them too. Navigational skills differences, for example, do indeed exist in animals. However, what has also been found is that the brain difference between males and females is proportional to the difference in size of territory or habitat. Therefore, in species where the male roams around alone and the female stays in a tight space, males are better at navigation. The brains are said to be ‘plastic’ and adapt over time to suit their tasks and lifestyles.
This plasticity has been shown in taxi drivers; they have a larger hippocampus - the part of the brain associated with navigation in birds and animals - compared with other people. The hippocampus grows larger as the taxi drivers spend more time in the job.
What if all gender differences in cognitive skills, in both animals and humans, are plastic? What if boys end up doing maths and engineering, climbing trees and the echelons of society, because that’s what society expects them to do? What if women fall into domestic roles because of all those toy tea sets and pretty pink dresses? And what if, when scientists try to test these 'natural tendencies', the results are influenced by not only the scientists' preconceptions but also those of the test subjects?
The argument against this stance – and I have begun to discuss with my neuroscientist friends – is the warning not to fall into what is known as the ‘Naturalistic Fallacy’ trap, which is to assume that anything other than biological equality (at a cognitive level) is bad, and that we should be thinking of positive ways to deal with the inequalities rather than insist they do not exist. I would argue back that I do not insist they do not exist – I have just not seen enough evidence to show that they do exist. And I’m concerned about thinking about ways to deal with differences (because this leads to discrimination), before they have actually been agreed on.
So I'm looking for more evidence, and very interested if anyone wants to discuss this with me. Until we have a consensus, I think it may be very dangerous to make assumptions.
31 December 2010
The danger of assuming that men and women are different
Labels:
brains,
discrimination,
gender differences,
neuroscience,
stereotypes
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I fully agree with you. I think that there is as much behavioural range within the category 'female' as there is between the categories 'male' and 'female'. I expect that nurture and brain plasticity explains this.
ReplyDeleteThere clearly are different expectations of men and women, right from the word go and these have a huge impact on what we expect from women. This includes other womens expectations. I often find that the people most annoyed by my lack of 'caring' nature are other women. They have been trained to have it, and sacrifice a lot to demonstrate it and its confronting for them when I don't fit into the stereotype.
I also think that if we assume that there are differences and then argue for the benefits of them in business or wherever, we expose ourselves to being kicked out of those professions if the so called differences don't deliver what we expect.
I believe that a better and more long term sustainable move is to address the underlying stereotyping that occurs in culture, so we can free women and men from the outdated roles they have been assigned. Then men can happily raise children, women can happily work in business and talent gets to contribute where it fits best.
How you shift that cultural conversation though, is the 6 million dollar question.
I read an article by Simon Baron Cohen (or, as I now think of him, Ali G's cousin) where he appeared to believe that only someone with a remarkable memory could take a stranger's date of birth or wedding anniversary and tell them instantly what day of the week it fell upon.
ReplyDeleteMy female brain knows it can be calculated, although, to be fair, I was taught the trick by a male teacher. I elaborate on this here.
I once had the misfortune to encounter a very impolite anti-feminist. According to her, she used to believe that women were good at science because evil feminists had brainwashed her. So, she couldn't work out why she was so bad at physics. Luckily, gender difference experts came along to show her it wasn't her fault. She wasn't bad at something, she was just female.
There was no point in arguing with her. She took a dislike to me just for being a Ms, and merely invented a lot of things she wanted to believe I had said or implied.
I am sure not all gender difference supporters are as rude as she, but some may be equally illogical.
Good points Lee. It's the culture of the whole of society that needs to change - attitudes of both women and men. Wouldn't it be great to live in a stereotype-free world! I think stereotypes are rooted into human nature; however we can try to eliminate them by challenging them as much as we can.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the insights Vanilla - I believe this is part of Baron Cohen's autism hypothesis - it's an extreme form of the 'male' brain. Always wondered how to do that trick! I think you also highlight an important point with Ms anti-feminist. Stereotypes can be used as excuses: 'I'm supposed to be bad at maths/physically weak/passive, therefore I will be.'
It's not an area with which I am hugely familiar but I am wading through my RSS build up ATM and I saw your post and a post of Echidne within a minute of each other and thought I would post a link here if it would be any use to you: http://echidneofthesnakes.blogspot.com/2010_12_26_archive.html#5233731403505826038
ReplyDeleteThe funny thing was that she was bad at physics, but not claiming to be weak. She veered from claiming to be a housewife to boasting about how much money she made as a businesswoman (and former stripper). And she owned a gun. (Yes, yes, the Atlantic separates me from her, which is just as well.)
ReplyDeleteI particularly liked her take on why breast implants are not unhealthy - it's because the women who have them tend to be more prone to smoking, alcoholism, etc, mental instability, etc, before they have the op. She was always boasting about her implants.
Thanks Tenderhooligan - that's a great post. I'm glad other people are writing about it too. Vanilla, this woman sounds interesting, and probably not someone who would like this blog very much!
ReplyDeleteA nice post. I have studied Baron-Cohen's arguments in great detail and wonder why he gets the respect he clearly does. For instance, only around 40% of women actually rate in the area which assigns them his so-called female brain!
ReplyDeleteAnd the way one tests for that is truly unscientific. The questions have a tremendous number of semi-hidden hints to get to the desired finding. One asked if a person knows how to fix the electricity in the house, as a measure of systematizing!
But that is first a learned skill. I didn't know how fix it before I bought a run-down fixer-upper! And second, it's an example picked from male gender roles. Had he asked if a person knows how to change a zipper professionally, he still would have talked about systematizing, but not a male role!
The examples of this are many in his test.
Thanks Echidne, I'm going to look at his results in more detail now. From hearing him speak, I had a few concerns about those kinds of issues. I expect he is given respect because he conforms with what people want to hear, ie stereotypes. I worry because he and other scientists in the same line throw around the word 'evidence' rather a lot, which often satisfies initially sceptical minds and gives him credibility.
ReplyDeleteLee Chalmers said...
ReplyDelete"I fully agree with you. I think that there is as much behavioural range within the category 'female' as there is between the categories 'male' and 'female'. I expect that nurture and brain plasticity explains this."
I do not agree. My observations tell me that women desire to conform to each other while men are differentiated by each other and by women as a collective. As a man raised mostly by women it's women who structure maleness/masculinity and force us into a 'manbox' as some feminists claim. Maybe it's because I am a millenial or because I was raised by women and not men but everything I have been told by women about men and women has turned out to be BS. I learned women think differently not from tv but from constantly wondering why they came to different conclusions. Whether it's social or bio doesn't really matter. It's not patriarchy but instead matriarchy that determine these roles today and it does nothing more than fuck up boys and men.
For ex, I have been told by women that men have trouble with emotions. The fact is that of all the masculine and even less masculine men I have known not one had any real problems with their emotions(unless they had certifiable mental problems). If anything they seem capable of controlling their emotions, esp. around women. This is because if you were born and raised a man you wold realize that women are far crueler than men about showing or even talking about emotions.
Talk about something emotional infront of women and they either feel sorry for you or call you a faggot. Either way it's not a great reaction. I have seen this happen with some of themost masculine guys. Like a former butcher and meat manager of mine who had been a football player and was built like a brick shit house. When I asked him why he went back to meat cutting after college he broke down in some slight tears and told me and the other guys about how he had been a paramedic and loved the job until one day he found a dead kid and had a breakdown and couldn't take it. Not one man teased him, some were ex marines and one a ex special forces soldier, and this is in a male only occupation where we would spend our free time checking out hot firls and punching each other in the kidneys for making vulgar jokes.
"I believe that a better and more long term sustainable move is to address the underlying stereotyping that occurs in culture, so we can free women and men from the outdated roles they have been assigned. Then men can happily raise children, women can happily work in business and talent gets to contribute where it fits best"
Why would I want to raise the children? This is the problem with you feminists. You obviously aren't about equality but instead about putting men in their place. I, as a male rights activist, believe in equal opportunity not forced outcome. How is the best fit going to find it's place when feminists are all about tearing down maleness while propping up femaleness. Boys are dying and beign drugged en mass because of your social engineering.
"Delilah said...
ReplyDeleteGood points Lee. It's the culture of the whole of society that needs to change - attitudes of both women and men. Wouldn't it be great to live in a stereotype-free world! I think stereotypes are rooted into human nature; however we can try to eliminate them by challenging them as much as we can."
Why is it that society and culture need to change for you? Don't you see the collectivism in your arguments, while you then complain about stereotypes?
People are herd animals like most other mammals. I agree that stereotypes and other forms of assortive mixing are incredibly annoying but it won't go away by simply changing culture to what your idealized form would be. It's the whole birds of a feather idea and it's all over the place. It's why cars group together on the highway and it's why in a empty movie theatre people will sit close to you instead of moving outwards. Ironically it's also why people in tight spaces center outwards, like elevators.
Tell me please how this idea of cultural being socialized instead of a natural component of our collective biological evolutions works? Remember that populations evolve, not individuals? But really, how can culture exist independently of biology? Without using a religious based argument???
You focus your argument on plasticity but that really only shows that humans had a rocky and highly variable evolutionary process. AKA the ones that didn't adapt to their new environments died before reproducing and the ones that did passed along genes allowing the brain to be more elastic in how it adapts.
I see feminists and others pushing the 'blank slate theory' will focus on one or two anthropoligcal examples that don't fit the popular mold but the exceptions really only prove the rule. Especially in Anthro because you can look at the scarcity and dire environments that served as catalysts to change the culture. The vast majority of cultures have the same attributes for men and women. Some differ to some degrees in how mens roles and womens roles are constructed but that is usually tied to scarcity and the environment.
But really, how does culture and society exist independently of evolution? So many of these arguments sound too similiar to creanist arguments about intelligent design for me to really take them seriously.
But I look forward to you taking my comments out of moderation and responding in a civil discussion. You can come to reddit.com/r/mensrights to see your post submitted and to converse with me and others interested in this topic.
Troll KING, Thanks for posting my link up on the site. Very happy to converse.
ReplyDeleteYou've raised some really good points - it seems we agree on many, and are aiming for the same thing - equality for both men and women. Men are restricted by stereotypes too. This is not the fault of men or women specifically (although of course, people verbalise these stereotypic expectations all the time), but of general assumptions and expectations of society. You've mentioned expressing emotions. You're right. There is a pressure on men to conform to the 'macho' stereotype. This is not about telling men to be a certain way, but letting men be how they want to be. If they want to be 'macho', fine. But many don't, but may feel pressure to do so. Many man do want to raise children. Many men don't. Our society should be such that people have the opportunity to do this, without feeling pressure conform to a particular role. It's also about sharing responsibility - why should the woman (or man) take on all the childcare if he/she is not happy with that arrangement? So it's also about fairness and compromise.
This is why society needs to change. Not for just us, but for everyone - men and women.
Whether it's social or bio does matter. It's crucial. If the assumption is that these differences are biological, then the stereotypes become rooted and even more difficult to shift. That's why I think it's important to not jump to any conclusions before there is adequate evidence (which there isn't yet). That leaves the 'social' option open which means that things can change. And when they change, men and women will benefit. Our aim is to reach a point where all the negative stereotypes about men that you mention don't exist, so that men and women are free to be the people they choose.
Ah, the danger of assuming men and women are different - your header rang bells for me, Delilah. The trouble I have with so much of the feminist argument is that it does not seem to include intersex people, that is, people born with disorders of sex development. Many such people already feel 'both' genders, having been born with variations of anatomy that differ from what sociey constitutes as 'normal' male or female development. This is not a black and white issue of hermaphroditism; but more purple in colour, where sometimes a chromosomal or enzyme imbalance creates a problem for foetal development in utero. Many such intersex people do not identify as either gender, and would prefer a third option instead of the usual binary. Many are subjected to enforced gender assignment surgery at birth by the medical authorities in their countries. Many are forced to take hormonal supplements to enforce that gender assignment. Many later transition to their preferred gender of choice. For these people, gender is not a given binary. For others, despite being intersex, they do identify strongly with a specific gender but have to fight the authorities to stay in their gender of choice. The damage caused by intersex surgery at birth is tantamount to torture for these adults, and results in both psychological and physical trauma, preventing normal relationships developing. In the UK, this is a taboo subject still, and glossed over by the medical profession. It is time for change.
ReplyDeleteKudos to the OP. I think that gender and race bias is really the white (male) elephant in the room of science. As you said, if you already know what answer you want, you're quite likely to choose the question that will get you that answer. We've perfected this and elevated almost to an art form in non scientific endeavors such as law and the study of rhetoric, but somehow this very human skill set is just supposed to vaporize in the presence of science.
ReplyDeleteOn a feminist note, I find it really interesting that a. people in general want confirmation for their prejudices in order to preserve them even when said prejudice is self limiting and b. even if there were demonstrable and profound cognitive differences, that is certainly not an argument against equal rights. I don't expect such proof to ever be found, personally. Again, as you noted, plasticity seems to be an overwhelming attribute of humans, and as such is a force preventing neurological "hard wiring."
Thanks for the comments. I agree, the subject of intersex is an important one. I saw this podcast, which I have yet to listen to... http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/audio/2010/dec/07/transitioning-gender-radical-technologies-debate
ReplyDeleteThanks also for the 'kudos' - great to hear. "Hard wiring" is a phrase that's starting to rattle my cage. Such a ridiculous metaphor! Steeped in prejudice before any scientific experiments even begin.